Newbie WC writer seeks advice from experienced hurt/comfort writers :)

[dreamsofspike.livejournal.com]

Okay, so I read the rules and it seems like this type of post is allowed, but if it is not, feel free to delete with my apologies, mods :P

I'm brand new to this fandom, and write primarily hurt/comfort fics in all my other fandoms. I'm very drawn to Peter/Neal as a pairing, and in particular stories involving Neal as the one being hurt and comforted :P 

However, I seem to be having a hard time getting a good grasp on how to write hurt/comfort with a character as emotionally guarded and closed off as Neal is. His facade is sooo good, it's difficult to get past it enough to actually make him vulnerable. The only thing I have thought of so far is that it helps if the situation is *REALLY* extreme, like - intense slave!fic or prison abuse scenario or something of that nature, but I'd like to be able to handle situations with a little more subtlety, as well. :P

Anyone have any thoughts/ideas/advice for me? Anyone else struggle with this in writing for this fandom? I have a particular piece I'm struggling with at the moment, and anyone who could take a look and let me know how to fix it, the advice would be greatly appreciated. :)

Thanks so much for anyone who can help :)

Dreamsofspike

Comments

[rabidchild.livejournal.com]

Such interesting questions. Two thoughts emerge:

First, the vulnerability itself could be the focal point - an inner struggle for him to be able to show such a thing to those closest to him in a crisis.

Second, I think that he has shown vulnerability in the moment, (i.e. when the plane exploded, when going after Fowler, when Moz was shot), though it is a rare thing, and only in extreme circumstances (like when drugged). He will only do this with those he trusts - Peter and Mozzie for sure, Sara presumably, given that he opened up to her about himself at the end of Pulling Strings. However, when he does show vulnerability, it's temporary, not something he'd sustain, and I could see those people he's opened up to being confused by how closed off he'd become later, once the crisis has passed.

And man, now I think that'd be a great fic!

I personally don't have a problem writing vulnerable!Neal. It's likely because he's the character I most identify with, and probably OOC, but I also chalk up his closed-off-ness in canon to the fact that it's a light, fun show and the producers don't want to go there - bring the heavy emotions too often - because it's not fitting with the tone of the show. Hence the (IMO) almost lack of reaction to Kate's death in those first eps of S2. So I write what I want to see, and that is the vulnerability, at least a little. It's a fine line, and a personal preference, but I do strive not to make him wimpy or weak, however. So he may have a 3-foot arrow sticking out of him, but he'll still crack a joke, KWIM? :)

[dreamsofspike.livejournal.com]

I kind of view Neal with the idea in mind that only someone who IS extremely vulnerable - someone with a tendency to give his heart away completely, someone who's a secret romantic, someone who's been hurt a lot in the past - has the need to try so hard not to let anyone actually SEE that they are.

But that act makes it so hard to know what Neal, openly vulnerable, would actually look like - UNLESS it's in an extreme circumstance like the ones you pointed out (Kate's death, Moz getting shot). That's why thinks like slave fics, Neal-raped-in-prison fics, seem like they'd be so much easier for me: the trauma is so intense that it'd make *anyone* show their vulnerability.

[ultracape.livejournal.com]

I haven't written all that much in the past year but I think that in the privacy of his apartment he probably does let it all out. He did tell Peter that he painted to calm his nerves and he was painting a lot. So he channels his pain, grief, angst, into his creations.

Also, we never really saw Neal after the explosion that killed Kate. Presumably he was in prison for a while. I can't imagine that having been any kind of a picnic for him at all.

I've read a lot where writers have said that being a con man, Neal takes on the character he creates, he becomes who he has to be, etc. instead of just playing a part. Given that hypothesis, it might be interesting to if Neal ever created a persona that is openly vulnerable and expressive of his emotions, just so that he can deal with his own real physical stress.

[dreamsofspike.livejournal.com]

now that is an interesting concept for a fic... that would be sooooo cool (and complicated and challenging) to write! :)

[nyxelestia.livejournal.com]

The lack of vulnerability can be a form of vulnerability in itself.

I'm definitely with Neal on the whole never show vulnerability, never let your guard down thing, don't even let on your negative emotions if you can help it thing...basically, I'm not as good a liar as Neal, but I have some masks that can match up. Sometimes being unable to keep up a mask and having to be so obviously upset can be terrifyingly vulnerable.

Even more terrifying is if someone notices those safe-guards, even if they do nothing about it. Keeping up the mask involves people not knowing it's there, so it's really unpleasant when someone else notices how much you have your guard up - often just because they happened to catch you during a moment when you had your guard down and were completely blank!faced and neutral because you had no masks left. Not fun. :( Just forcing Neal to show he has a vulnerability, even if he won't show what it is, can be hurty.

Another way to go about it is to get inside Neal's head (and/or have someone else get inside his head) and reveal the disparity between what they are thinking and what they are showing on their face. It's amazing what you can be thinking about without other people realizing it, and a huge gap (and someone noticing that huge gap) can be scary as well.



I tend to relate to Neal really easily in a lot of ways. If you want, I'll take a look at what you've got and offer my advice. :)

[ultracape.livejournal.com]

That's why fanfic writers get the big bucks.

[sallymn.livejournal.com]

when he does show vulnerability, it's temporary, not something he'd sustain... and Neal being, well Neal, there's always the chance that the vulnerability is at least partly a con in itself. Which makes writing the dear man even more challenging :)

[winterstar95.livejournal.com]

In many ways I've always tried to write Neal with his vulnerabilities internalized. So that while the outside world and the characters of the story might not actually know the angst and pain Neal is going through, the reader does because of the internal thoughts, etc.

You can also show it in other ways, through smart remarks, or failing to complete an assignment or issues with recovery from what ever hurt (I did this with Scars in his Eyes and with The Phantom - I thought it worked well).

I cannot wait to read some of your stuff! Please do post for us!

[neontiger55.livejournal.com]

Very interesting question.

To me, Neal is a highly vulnerable character in many ways; the suits, the smiles and the tricks are part of the armour - to others and, I think, himself. So, you can write from him POV and like others have said, show the contrast between the inner conflict and what he shows on the outside.
It's possible to write h/c from Peter's POV as well - he knows Neal better than anyone, so you can show the vulnerabilities as Peter sees them (i.e., picking up on the small stuff, like in 'Withdrawal'). And then, of course, you have to ask yourself how Peter would react - how would he comfort Neal when he refuses to acknowledge there's a problem? A lot of it is in the interplay between those two things.

My preference is actually for the h/c to be relatively understated, because both Neal and to a certain extent, Peter are emotionally guarded. Personally, I don't think you need to have an extreme situation *solely* to eek out the h/c. You can achieve the same depth of feeling in a less heavily charged situation by the nuances you use, and the atmosphere and tone you create. Hope that makes sense! :)

[rabidchild.livejournal.com]

Yes it is and I've been dying to see someone write it, i.e. all of neal's aliases are actually personas or personalities, and ways to help him deal with the pain in his life. I don't think I have the guts to tackle it - I wish someone would.

[pooh-collector.livejournal.com]

I second this. I think Neal's internal dialogue is really important in showing his emotions. I also think he can give a lot away through his conversations, his tone, his inflection, particularly with Peter. The gorgeous thing is that Peter usually can read Neal very well, so you can also use Peter's reactions and internal dialogue to illustrate Neal's emotional state.

Then there are the tried and true techniques like an exhausted, drugged or in physical pain character. It's always harder to hide vulnerability in these circumstances.

And, finally the more cliche options like through dreams as I did in Wheatfield with Crows.

[dreamsofspike.livejournal.com]

yeah, there's always the very sad, ironic possibility that even if he's being genuine, he'll be perceived as being manipulative... which i think just makes him close himself off more :/

[dreamsofspike.livejournal.com]

yeah, i agree, just being able to shake his facade, to make him show what's underneath it even a little, would be on the slightly traumatic side for him i think, because he's sooooo guarded ... looking forward to your thoughts on the story, sent it to you just now :)

[dreamsofspike.livejournal.com]

i agree with these ideas :) the thing that makes it tricky though, is - that covers the *hurt* part, but what about the *comfort*? In order for neal to receive comfort, someone has to *know* that he's suffering - and just the fact of someone knowing he's suffering is for him, just another *form* of suffering :/

it's tricky :P

[dreamsofspike.livejournal.com]

yeah, see, i see peter as being very perceptive, especially when it comes to the people he loves (el, neal, even diana sometimes) - and quite a bit more comfortable with showing affection, dealing with emotions, etc, than most men, *definitely* more than neal ... i think it's believable to have peter sometimes call neal on his "i'm fine" BS... the trick is to find a way/reason to allow neal to *accept* that comfort, because he's just soooo guarded...

exhaustion, drugging, extreme trauma... those methods might work :P

[dreamsofspike.livejournal.com]

the thing is, for me, the thing i want to see is the catharsis - the eventual, somehow, letting out of the pain, etc, and receiving of comfort... and as you point out, that's incredibly tricky with neal when he refuses to acknowledge that he's hurting :/

extreme situations make that easier to deal with, but yes, i want to learn how to do the same thing in tamer situations :P at the moment, that's my problem lol

[neontiger55.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's definitely tough. I love to see that catharsis too, and it took me a while to figure out how to handle those kind of fics. Have you read any of aisle_one's fics? The Refuge Series deals with the aftermath of Neal's rape and is a great example of understated but well wrought h/c where Peter is trying to comfort Neal. Might be good for inspiration? :)

http://aisle-one.livejournal.com/tag/the%20refuge%20series

[love-82.livejournal.com]

Just jumping in to say that as a reader I like it when the writer writes Neal's internal thoughts and feelings and how that is different from what is shown to the world.

Also like was said using Peter's POV is good too. He knows Neal so well and I like reading how he picks up on the little nounces and things in Neal's demeanor. He would be able to tell when something is wrong. You could also use Mozzie and Elizabeth in that role too. Mozzie would be able to pick up on the differences and Elizabeth knows Neal well too. Maybe Sara now too.

I definately relate to Neal. I have always hated showing vulnerabilty and talking about how I really feel. I'm more into the joke and make snarky comments thing. That is how my family was. You don't really say how you really feel. You relate to eachother through the joking and teasing and little nounces and actions. Showing how you feel without actually coming out and saying it.

I look forward to reading your stories.

[sallymn.livejournal.com]

Yes... but also the equally ironic possibility that, even if he IS hurting, there might be a little part of Neal that IS manipulating it all for some as-h-sees-it good reason...

{sigh} He is such a wonderful, complex and difficult character :)

[sallymn.livejournal.com]

PS - just occurred to me also that Neal (unlike a few of my other stoic-to-the-point-of-ridiculous Heroes) will cry (see canon, Out of the Box) when he's distraught, though personally I can't recall him doing it in front of anyone except Peter (not even Kate, though I have't watched Forging Bonds closely).

So - as long as they're totally alone - a few hairline cracks in the armour are believable, yes?

[dreamsofspike.livejournal.com]

thanks :)

the more i read here, the more i feel like maybe this has a lot to do with the individual background of the writer/reader ... i grew up in a *very* emotionally expressive home, and am very expressive/emotive in general :P lol... so maybe that's why i prefer to have the huge cathartic emotional breakdown scene - and that is the root of my problem :P lol... that's a VERY difficult thing to achieve with one Mr. Neal Caffrey :P lol

[dreamsofspike.livejournal.com]

yes, i agree with that completely... peter is the only one neal trusts... therefore, it stands to reason he'd trust him with letting down the walls a little bit, too, and allowing his feelings/fears to show :)

[love-82.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think it does have to do with the background of the individual. It is great that you grew up in a family like that. I wish I was more emotionally expressive. I think that is why I like those type of stories too. Ones that have the huge breakdown scene. Because I wish I could express my emotions like that.

But yeah, that type of scene would be hard to achieve with Neal. Not impossible though. Like I said I think Peter is one person currently who Neal would actually completely breakdown in front of.

Speaking for myself if I trusted the person and felt safe with them I would be able to be vulnerable with them.

[squeakyoflight.livejournal.com]

Had to chime in here. So interesting!
i haven't yet written in WC, but I've written a lot of h/c in SGA so I feel (somewhat) qualified to give my two cents.

Yes it *could* be traumatic for Neal to receive comfort because it means his cover of non-vulnerability has been blown, but I think you could also look at it the other way too - that Neal would actually be relieved to be comforted, especially if the person giving comfort (like Peter) gets that he's hurting without him actually having to admit it.

I could really see Neal just *melting* into the comfort, especially if it was something like a shoulder clasp or even a hug (not really Peter's style, though) if it was given without words, but just because the giver knew he needed it. And then, mere moments later, Neal would come back to himself and pretend it never happened. "if you ever wanna talk..." Peter would say, " about what?" Neal would return with his big, fake grin, and pretend like it never happened.

One more thought - he does allow himself to be vulnerable around women. I'm thinking of his conversation in the hotel with Diana when he talked about Kate's death, and letting El care for him after he was drugged at the clinic.

Thanks for the thought-provoking post!

Squeaky